Modern Militiaman
Modern Militiaman.
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:32:07 -0500
To: "Missouri 103rd Division" (missouri103rd@hotmail.com)
From: Martin Lindstedt (mlindste@jscomm.net)
Cc: mckinzey@sky.net, jam@sky.net, cdhart@laurie.net,
IANews.Publish@Syninfo.COM,
misc-activism-militia@moderators.uu.net,
resistancepoliticalfront@egroups.com, eagleflt@bignet.net,
SonsofLiberty@onelist.com, jon.roland@the-spa.com
Reply-to: SonsofLiberty@onelist.com
Subject: Missouri 51st Militia & Its Criminal-Regimeist Ties
From: Martin Lindstedt (mlindste@jscomm.net)
From: "Missouri 103rd Division" (missouri103rd@hotmail.com)
To: mlindste@jscomm.net
Subject: Missouri 51st Militia
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 01:36:20 CDT
I came across your web page, and thought you might want to be a little
more informed about the Missouri 51st. I am not here to discredit
anyone, however I have some truths that you might find very interesting.
I almost took the oath and swore into the Mo. 51st, until I found these
things out. Are you aware that they openly invite the BATF to come to
their meetings? Does this not seem a little strange to you? I also
learned that they gave (and still do to my knowledge) a list of names
to the BATF of every member they have. They will openly admit this to
you if you ask about it. Their reason is that they have nothing to
hide. That is wonderful that they have nothing to hide, however where
do you think the BATF will strike first if they have an open invitaion?
We all know what happened in Waco, Texas. Why would anyone willingly
put their organization, their people, and their beleifs in the same
path of destruction on purpose!?! I find it extremely irritating to
see other patriots taken in by them. I personally can not see them
as any more than a glamorized political group, more concerned about
their appearance to the people that take our rights away more and more
every day. They claim to stand for these rights, but do they really?
They stand for these rights by holding an occasional shoot and campout,
and in the background reporting to the very people they are supposed to
be standing up too! I find this very disturbing, and I hope that you
will as well. The Missouri 103rd Division hasn't been around but for
about 6 months, but we stand for the truths that this country was
founded on, and we are prepared to do whatever means neccasary to keep
those truths and protect the constitution of the United States of
America. Not only for ourselves, but our future generations to
come. Please, really consider what I have said, and converse with
the Missouri 51st.
Though our website isn't complete, we would like to be added to your
links.
The address is as follows if you would like to see it.
http://members.xoom.com/Mo103rd
Thank you for your time,
Bat.Commander
XXXX X. XXXXXXXX
Missouri 103rd Division
========================================================
At 01:36 AM 9/5/99 CDT, Missouri 103 Bn CO wrote:
>I came across your web page, and thought you might want to be a little
>more informed about the Missouri 51st.
You are correct. I wish as a matter of internal security to be
well aware of what the Missouri 51st is doing. I have reason to
believe that what you say is not only correct, but rather it is in
all eventuality even worse than what you have said.
> I am not here to discredit anyone,
>however I have some truths that you might find very interesting. I
>almost took the oath and swore into the Mo. 51st, until I found these
>things out.
So you figured out what was going on with the Missouri 51st, and
decided to not join their militia organization. This is happening
more and more as people begin to wonder about the Mo 51st's divided
loyalties and coziness with the federal criminal regime.
>Are you aware that they openly invite the BATF to come to their
>meetings? Does this not seem a little strange to you?
No, I was not aware that they invite the BATF goons to their
militia meetings. I was aware that they invite FBI agents to their
meetings, that their CO, James McKinsey, has commanded the people
of his command to not be mean to the FBI, and at one meeting of the
Missouri State militia commanders openly said that the FBI is a
CONstitutional federal police force with a job to do. Some of the
annoyed rural militia people said to me that McKinsey is at the FBI
office so often that they thought that he was working with them.
Also, one of the officers of the Missouri 51st, Carolyn Hart,
was overheard to agree with the World Federalist Jon Roland, that
the Christian Identity people had no right to form their own private
militias and that they should be disowned as legitimate militia
combatants. This was overheard on PIML, a mailing list composed
mainly of revealed past infilltraitors and agents provacateurs from
the pro-regimeist, anti-White, Tri-States Militia/Coalition. Thus
one of the officers of the Missouri 51st is advocating a position
held by the outvoted VanHuizen/Wayne faction of the Michigan Militia,
which last month openly allied with the FBI against the Christian
Identity Resistance movement.
The open public so-called CONstitutional suburban militias have
always tended to gang up on the rural, Christian militias and
collaborate with the federal criminal regime. These suburban militias
simply do not have the same political goals as their rural brethren,
demanding 'reform' of the multi-cultural multi-racial Evil Empire. In
addition they permissively harbor spies, infilltraitors and agents
provacateur and denounce an increasingly White Nationalist/Christian
Identity Resistance in print and occassionally collaborating with the
criminal regime.
>I also learned that they gave (and still do to my knowledge) a list of
>names to the BATF of every member they have. They will openly admit
>this to you if you ask about it.
This does not surprize me in the least. However, to be fair I think
I shall ask them if this is true, although from my past observation I
have little doubt that what you say is probably true.
>Their reason is that they have nothing to hide. That is wonderful that
>they have nothing to hide, however where do you think the BATF will
>strike first if they have an open invitaion?
The rural militias which they have denounced to the FBI and the BATF
as being dangerous Christian Identity racist extremists. However, their
betrayal done, the regime shall in turn do away with the open militia
generals once the anti-militia hysteria has been whipped up.
You see the problem is that most of the militia talent went
underground in 1995, 1996, and 1997. It left the militia generals
and their regimeist parasites aboveground like beached carp in a
vanishing pool of a dried-out creek bed. It also left a few
Resistance politicals aboveground for communication and political
purposes. The Resistance and the pro-regimeist militia generals
generally loathe and despise the other side.
>We all know what happened in Waco, Texas. Why would anyone
>willingly put their organization, their people, and their beleifs in the
>same path of destruction on purpose!?!
It is because most of them are fools and some of them are regime
criminals.
>I find it extremely irritating to see
>other patriots taken in by them. I personally can not see them as any
>more than a glamorized political group, more concerned about their
>appearance to the people that take our rights away more and more every
>day. They claim to stand for these rights, but do they really? They
>stand for these rights by holding an occasional shoot and campout, and
>in the background reporting to the very people they are supposed to be
>standing up too! I find this very disturbing, and I hope that you will
>as well.
I would say that you have summed the Missouri 51st up pretty
accurately. I used to work with them here in Southwest Missouri,
but after five years they have not progressed mentally or morally
in any way -- in fact they have regressed on both these points.
The best man they had died four years ago and those outside the 51st
saw the KC bunch clearly lose their moorings and even their sense of
why they were fighting. They became increasingly interested in
militia trappings of uniforms and guns and running around in the woods
that they lost sight of both their reason to exist and who their
enemies are. They are no longer a revolutionary cadre, but rather
small-minded right-wing reactionaries demanding a 'reform' which will
never come, collaborating with the criminal regime's police forces,
and vaguely threatening anti-government 'extremists' of rural, white,
Christian fundamentalist Identity persuasion.
>The Missouri 103rd Division hasn't been around but for about 6 months,
>but we stand for the truths that this country was founded on, and we
>are prepared to do whatever means neccasary to keep those truths and
>protect the constitution of the United States of America. Not only
>for ourselves, but our future generations to come. Please, really
>consider what I have said, and converse with the Missouri 51st.
I will send their officers a copy of this e-mail. They should
have a chance to respond in their defense, however, I have no doubt
that they have crossed the line of collaboration with the criminal
regimeists several times, and have justified it as being a good thing
to where they no longer know the difference between right and wrong.
I am no fan of the CONstitution -- I owe no duty to the Evil Empire
it founded. My first loyalty is to my own People -- not a form of
government.
>Though our website isn't complete, we would like to be added to your links.
>The address is as follows if you would like to see it.
>http://members.xoom.com/Mo103rd
>
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Bat.Commander
> XXXX X. XXXXXXXXXX
>
>
>Missouri 103rd Division
Your WWW page needs more content. But I have put it up as another
Missouri Militia, just as I do with any such organization with a WWW
page and a chapter in Missouri.
I appreciate your using a hotmail account. I hope this is not
your real name you sent to me. In any case, I don't think the Missouri
51st or its regimeist friends need to know your name, unless you insist.
I routinely change names of people who send messages to me and don't
bother to remember them.
I sat on your message for over a month because I was waiting to
hear the news, not forthcoming, about the militia generals who met
at Knob Creek to restore the militia movement they finished 18 months
ago on April 19, 1998 at Knob Creek. Since I didn't hear anything,
and because they would have said something if they had settled their
differences, then the militia generals failed or didn't even show up.
The message you sent me above is interesting because you bring up the
reason for the internal civil war currently being fought between a
largely White Nationalist/Christian Identity Resistance and the
increasingly pro-regimeist militia movement. Last month the conflict
became overt, what with the deposed faction of the Michigan Militia
openly getting into bed with the FiBbIes and scared to death of the
Identity Christian Resistance element come Y2K. The Missouri 51st
Militia seems to be no different than these renegade Michigan militia
generals.
--Martin Lindstedt
Resistance Political Front
=================================
From: "Missouri 103rd Division" (missouri103rd@hotmail.com)
To: mlindste@jscomm.net
Subject: Re: Missouri 51st Militia & Its Criminal-Regimeist Ties
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:44:48 CDT
I just wanted to take the time to thank you for your response to my
mail about a month ago. You have obviously given much thought to your
response, and it is greatly appreciated. You also told me of a few
things I wasn't aware of. Thanks for adding the 103rd to your links,
and I will be working on more content to add to it from time to time.
I am interested to see what responses, if any, will be given from the
51st. After thinking about it I was in the wrong to say the 103rd
stands for the constitution of the United States. We stand for us,
and for our freedom. Keep up the good fight.
Bat.Commander
xxxxx x.xxxxxx
.
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:45:46 -0800
From: cdhart@laurie.net (Carolyn Hart)
Reply-To: cdhart@laurie.net
To: piml@egroups.com
The "Ward and June Cleaver" militia? How embarrassing!
Carolyn
11/29/99- Updated 12:12 AM ET
FBI's uneasy alliance
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY
GRAIN VALLEY, Mo. - Jim McKinzey, a 45-year-old roofer who wears
flannel shirts during the week and camouflage on the weekends,
is commander of the 51st Missouri Militia. His views of the
federal government range from suspicion to contempt.
Tom Kinnally, also 45, wears a starched white shirt nd a suit
during the week and has an office suite in the FBI's Kansas City
field office, a building known locally as the "fortress on the
freeway."
In McKinzey's eyes, Kinnally, the assistant special agent in charge
of an office that has jurisdiction in all of Kansas and western
Missouri, is the government.
Despite their personal and philosophical differences, the militia
leader and the FBI agent have struck a surprising partnership that
would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. By sharing
information and talking to each other in a series of meetings and
casual telephone calls, these two men on opposite sides are working
together to try to prevent terrorism as the millennium nears.
The FBI fears that "lone wolves," people on the fringes of the
militia movement, might use the Year 2000 as an excuse to commit
terrorism or other criminal acts. It believes militia groups have
unique access to people whose radical views may turn violent. It
worries about people such as Buford Furrow, who went on a shooting
rampage at a Jewish community center in Los Angeles last summer,
and Benjamin Nathaniel Smith, who killed two people before committing
suicide during a Fourth of July shooting spree from Illinois to
Indiana. Both had ties to white supremacist groups.
Because of such tragedies, a growing number of militia members
worry that they're being unfairly associated with criminal
activity. Just because they're anti-government doesn't mean they
support violence and terrorism, they say. That's why they're more
willing to talk to the FBI.
"I feel comfortable enough to call them up and talk whenever I feel
the need or if there is something in the wind we think they should
know about," McKinzey says. "We're not enemies. We have to build
bridges."
This unlikely alliance, though controversial in some militia quarters,
is being copied nationwide:
* Militia leaders in Montana have been sitting down with FBI
agents to exchange information described by the participants
as mutually beneficial.
"We talk to them (the FBI)," says Militia of Montana leader
John Trochmann, "because we want to be sure they know where
we're coming from."
* In Bloomfield, Ind., federal agents and members of at least a
half dozen local militia groups met last month.
* In Alabama, Mike Vanderboegh, commander of the 1st Cavalry
Regiment Constitutional Militia, is not completely comfortable
with the new relationship. But he takes the FBI's calls.
"The FBI has a helluva problem," Vanderboegh says. "They
want to make sure we're not coming up on their backs. It's up
to them to start the dialogue."
At best, federal agents say they have been able to open a dialogue
in which militia members have provided information helpful in
criminal investigations. John Bell, the FBI special agent-in-charge
of the Indianapolis field office, says a militia leader passed on a
tip last month involving a member who had been expelled from the
group. The former member has since emerged as the target of a
criminal investigation.
"Most militia organizations are not (made up of) dangerous
radicals," Bell says. "They're not bombers. We want to make sure
that information is passed along."
In Kansas City, Kinnally says, the office has fielded similar calls
from the 51st Missouri Militia.
Yet the animosity and suspicion between the militias and the FBI
haven't eased completely. Some militia leaders consider the
cooperation no less than treason.
"The FBI has no interest in opening a dialogue," says Bob Wright,
commanding officer of the 1st Brigade New Mexico Militia. "They're
interested in gathering intelligence. They're interested in finding
some weak-minded fools to hustle. Whoever is cooperating is being
used as a pawn."
Not so, the FBI says. What it wants from these encounters, which
were ordered by Attorney General Janet Reno and FBI Director Louis
Freeh, is to reassure militia groups that they have the right to
their beliefs, no matter how extreme. It's not illegal to have
anti-government views, the FBI says, as long as no crime follows.
For their part, cooperation with the FBI gives militia groups an
opportunity to improve their image, which was shattered when the
Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was bombed in April 1995.
Since then, the militia movement has been in decline, from 858
groups in 1996 to 435 last year, according to the Southern
Poverty Law Center, which monitors the militia movement and hate
groups.
The bombing in Oklahoma City, in which 168 people were killed, had
a lot to do with that. It was during the investigation that
authorities found that the suspected bombers, Timothy McVeigh and
Terry Nichols, shared a loose association with militia groups.
During a search of Nichols' Kansas home immediately after the bombing,
authorities found a business card from the 51st Missouri Militia.
That brought federal agents to McKinzey's doorstep here in Grain
Valley.
"That scared the daylights out of me," McKinzey says. "Of course,
(Nichols) was not a member of our group. I didn't know what to
expect. After we talked, I realized they (the FBI) weren't accusing
me of anything. They were just there to do their job. I respected
them for that. I respect them still."
That contact paved the way for meetings between the FBI and the
Missouri Militia. The meetings continue today.
But the first meetings were tense. Since the fiery deaths of more
than 80 men, women and children during an FBI siege of the Branch
Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, in 1993, agents had been regarded
in some quarters as storm troopers who would kill Americans for
owning a gun.
The militia movement grew in power after Waco and a government
standoff with Randy Weaver in 1992 in Ruby Ridge, Idaho. Weaver's
wife, his 14-year-old son and a deputy U.S. marshall were killed in
the shootout.
So when the FBI's David Tubbs, the former agent-in-charge in Kansas
City, and other agents walked into a packed library conference room
in Independence, Mo., in January 1996, they were hit by a chorus of
insults and taunts - "baby killer!"
"It was standing-room only," says McKinzey, who estimates the crowd
at more than 200. "It was pretty harried in there for a while. Put
it this way: The boys were not on their best behavior."
The FBI agents weren't expecting a welcoming committee. Their
strategy was to let group members vent and move on to a conversation.
No matter how rough the talk, federal agents simply took it. Just
for absorbing the punishment, the agents earned respect that night.
Yet the relationship that has developed since remains controversial
in the militia movement. Critics say the FBI has co-opted some
leaders and turned them into government informants.
Vanderboegh, Wright and others remain suspicious of the FBI because
in the past, informants -- most recruited from within organizations
-- have been used to infiltrate their groups. Informants have
helped build cases against militia and hate organizations in the
past three years in Arizona, West Virginia and Georgia, on charges
ranging from the stockpiling of explosives to terrorism. Those
prosecutions also have helped contribute to a thinning of the
militia ranks, law enforcement officials say.
Wright of New Mexico says the FBI's recent publication of a 40-page
pamphlet that assesses the potential security threat posed by
extremist organizations proves that the FBI really is just interested
in collecting intelligence. The pamphlet was given to local police
departments.
The report, named Project Megiddo, was circulated three weeks ago
as a tool for policing extremist groups, many of which attach
apocalyptic meaning to Y2K. "Radical elements of the militia
movement are capable and willing to commit violence against the
government," the FBI warned.
As the new millennium approaches, the "impetus for the initiation
of violence becomes more acute," the FBI's report says. "Several
religiously motivated groups envision a quick, fiery ending in an
apocalyptic battle."
But the card-carrying members of the 51st, at least those gathered
recently at the home of McKinzey's brother, Mike, look anything but
menacing.
John Rice, 41, programs computerized milling machines; Bill Binham,
70, is a retired freight handler; Bob Gurski, 45, is a power plant
mechanic; Rick Hawkins, 43, is a telephone company manager; and
Roger Mabry, 32, runs his own fire extinguisher company.
"I know them to be gentlemen," Kinnally says. "In many ways, our
goals are the same as theirs. We live in the same community. Our
kids go to the same schools as their kids."
In fact, the 51st is known to other militias as the "Ward and June
Cleaver Bunch," a reference to the group's reputation for clean
living and community service, not unlike that of the parents on
the old TV show, Leave it to Beaver.
Still, McKinzey, Hawkins and others know that colleagues have
criticized their willingness to help the FBI. "I saw one e-mail
saying I had my own parking space at the FBI building," McKinzey
says. "That doesn't bother me."
Says Hawkins: "The FBI is not the enemy. I say, let's keep talking
and see what we have. I feel that if you look at somebody eyeball
to eyeball, it is going to be less likely that somebody is going
to come to my home and kick in my door."
That is not to say they consider themselves government lackeys.
"There may come a day," says Mike McKinzey, the 51st's public
information officer, "when the FBI will have to enforce a law we
don't agree with. People will then have to decide which way
they are gonna go -- slavery or freedom. We don't support bad
law enforcement."
The FBI's Bell says no amount of talking will resolve all of their
differences.
"Some will always believe that their freedom is being compromised
and the government is slowly selling out their rights under the
Constitution," Bell says. "What I'm concerned about is that they
don't take any action."
Was (no longer) at the Mon. Nov. 29, 1999 USA Today spot at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/acovmon.htm
.
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